Beide Platten im Raid 1 defekt, Zufall ?

chris085 · Nov 28, 2012

Ich suche gerade Hände ringend nach Gründen, wie gleichzeitig zwei Platten im Raid 1 defekte Sektoren haben können.
Laut Smart sind die Sata HDD's gerade mal 105 Tage alt!

Schätze mal pro Tag um die 300 GB schreiben und etwa das doppelte an lesen. Lässt sich durch ständige IO eine Festplatte beschädigen oder wars einfach nur Zufall ?

blupp1 · Nov 28, 2012

Dass der Raidcontroller kaputt ist, ist nicht möglich?

chris085 · Nov 28, 2012

Softwareraid

blupp1 · Nov 28, 2012

Dann vllt. defekter Festplattencontroller?

Joe User · Nov 28, 2012

Seagate? 300GB/Tag ist für Consumer-Platten eigentlich zuviel, Enterprise-Platten sollten das hingegen verkraften.

Welches Filesystem? mount-Optionen?

chris085 · Nov 28, 2012

Seagate ST1000DM003-9YN162
ext 3
rw,relatime,errors=continue,barrier=0,data=ordered

Ich find auch nirgendwo Informationen zu dem Thema. Ist es den überhaupt möglich eine Platte durch zu vieles schreiben kaputt zu machen ?

derWachert · Nov 28, 2012

Naja, verbrauch halt nech

maybe sind es Montagsplatten. Sind es nahe beieinander liegende Seriennumern? Stichwort gleiche Marge.

Joe User · Nov 28, 2012

s/Marge/Charge/

Seagate ist seit rund 20 Jahren bekannt für eine deutlich höhere Rate an "Montagsplatten" als alle anderen Hersteller (die eine Klick-Klick-Klack-IBM-Serie aussen vor gelassen). Bei Seagate gibt es nur zwei Arten von Platten: Entweder sie laufen ewig, oder sie sterben in weniger als einem Jahr.

http://forums.seagate.com/t5/Barrac...da/RETURNED-FOR-REFUND-ST1000DM003/m-p/161716

Die ST1000DM003 ist zudem mit einer Power-on-Hours von 2400 spezifiziert, welche bei >100 Tagen 24/7 überschritten sind, womit Deine Platten ihre Mindestlebensdauer hinter sich haben. Sind halt nur Consumer-Platten.

Joe User · Nov 28, 2012

Ach ja, zum barrier=0 sei noch auf meine Posts in https://serversupportforum.de/threads/hoher-io-load-ubuntu-flush-8-0.49816/ verwiesen.

chris085 · Nov 29, 2012

Joe User said:
s/Marge/Charge/

Die ST1000DM003 ist zudem mit einer Power-on-Hours von 2400 spezifiziert, welche bei >100 Tagen 24/7 überschritten sind, womit Deine Platten ihre Mindestlebensdauer hinter sich haben. Sind halt nur Consumer-Platten.

Danke für den Hinweis, habe jetzt mal ins OVH Forum gepostet:
http://forum.ovh.de/showthread.php?p=69610#post69610

Mal auf das Statement warten!

d4f · Nov 29, 2012

Nebenbei;
Das Risiko dass die zweite Platte spätestens beim RAID-Recovery ebenfalls stirbt ist aufgrund gleichen Alters, evtl gleicher Produktionsprobleme und dem Fakt dass es eine bitweise Kopie der ganzen Platte (also jede Menge an Last) recht hoch.

BTW " ich will doch nicht alle 3-4 Monate meine Platten tauschen lassen!!!"
Auch Desktop-Festplatten leben im Schnitt sehr viel länger. Das schlimmste für eine Platte ist immer das Anschalten, durchgehender Normalbetrieb mit ausreichender Kühlung halten eigentlich auch Desktop-Festplatten problemlos aus.
Der Hersteller hat sie aber weder darauf ausgelegt noch garantiert er es weswgen teurere Systeme (was die OVH-eigenen Server ja eigentlich sind) Server-Platten verbauen sollten.

chris085 · Nov 29, 2012

Bisschen nachgeforscht, in einem weiteren Server Hetzner EX4 sind Seagate ST3000DM001 verbaut! Gleiches spiel mit den 2400 Stunden ^^
http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j...xAHvjnsNw&sig2=CMMfne6tVUgjpXnauTWmmQ&cad=rja

Joe User · Nov 29, 2012

Aus meinem EX4:

Code:

[root@devnull:~] # smartctl -a /dev/ada0
smartctl 6.0 2012-10-10 r3643 [FreeBSD 9.1-PRERELEASE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-12, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 (AF)
Device Model:     ST3000DM001-9YN166
Serial Number:    S1F0957D
LU WWN Device Id: 5 000c50 04a48bb77
Firmware Version: CC4C
User Capacity:    3,000,592,982,016 bytes [3.00 TB]
Sector Sizes:     512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate:    7200 rpm
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.0, 6.0 Gb/s (current: 6.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is:    Thu Nov 29 14:36:22 2012 CET

==> WARNING: A firmware update for this drive is available,
see the following Seagate web pages:
http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/207931en
http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/223651en

SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
                                        was never started.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                (  575) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x73) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        No Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 331) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x3085) SCT Status supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   119   100   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       221430032
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   097   097   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       4
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   069   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       9383239
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   095   095   000    Old_age   Always       -       4404
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       4
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
184 End-to-End_Error        0x0032   100   100   099    Old_age   Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0 0 0
189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       1
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   066   062   045    Old_age   Always       -       34 (Min/Max 20/38)
191 G-Sense_Error_Rate      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       2
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   035   035   000    Old_age   Always       -       131160
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   034   040   000    Old_age   Always       -       34 (0 20 0 0 0)
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
240 Head_Flying_Hours       0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       3611h+41m+53.078s
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       14453346185862
242 Total_LBAs_Read         0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       4975480777655

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4391         -
# 2  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4367         -
# 3  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4343         -
# 4  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4319         -
# 5  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4295         -
# 6  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      4277         -
# 7  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4271         -
# 8  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4247         -
# 9  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4223         -
#10  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4199         -
#11  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4175         -
#12  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4151         -
#13  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4127         -
#14  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%      4109         -
#15  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4103         -
#16  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4079         -
#17  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4055         -
#18  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4031         -
#19  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      4007         -
#20  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      3983         -
#21  Short offline       Completed without error       00%      3959         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

Die 2400h sind also deutlich überschritten, es ist halt nur ein Mindestwert wie das Mindesthaltbarkeitsdatum bei Lebensmitteln.
Nach 2400h darf die Platte laut Hersteller sterben, muss es aber nicht.
Die 2400h entsprechen übrigens einem durchschnittlichen 9to5-Arbeitsjahr und genau dafür ist die Serie auch spezifiziert.

chris085 · Nov 29, 2012

@Joe, ich klammer mich auch nicht an den Wert, dafür bin ich auch schon lange dabei und habe sehr gute Erfahrungen auch mit Desktop Platten.

Siehe #1 hat mich jedoch zum ersten mal so richtig wach gerüttelt und da darf man sich doch wundern....

chris085 · Nov 29, 2012

btw. wer bietet mehr

Code:

smartctl 5.40 2010-07-12 r3124 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 family
Device Model:     ST3160815AS
Serial Number:    5RX0NE2G
Firmware Version: 3.AAD
User Capacity:    160,041,885,696 bytes
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   7
ATA Standard is:  Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
Local Time is:    Thu Nov 29 14:53:58 2012 CET
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x82)    Offline data collection activity
                    was completed without error.
                    Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0)    The previous self-test routine completed
                    without error or no self-test has ever 
                    been run.
Total time to complete Offline 
data collection:          ( 430) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:              (0x5b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                    Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                    Suspend Offline collection upon new
                    command.
                    Offline surface scan supported.
                    Self-test supported.
                    No Conveyance Self-test supported.
                    Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003)    Saves SMART data before entering
                    power-saving mode.
                    Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01)    Error logging supported.
                    General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine 
recommended polling time:      (   1) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:      (  54) minutes.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   112   097   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   098   097   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       86
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   072   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       19362998
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   049   049   000    Old_age   Always       -       45264
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       86
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
189 High_Fly_Writes         0x003a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   072   065   045    Old_age   Always       -       28 (Lifetime Min/Max 27/33)
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   028   040   000    Old_age   Always       -       28 (0 18 0 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   080   073   000    Old_age   Always       -       111007732
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
202 Data_Address_Mark_Errs  0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

Marentis · Nov 29, 2012

Meine WD im Desktop hat jetzt 10047 Betriebsstunden auf dem Buckel und hat zwei Samsung F1 überlebt (die ich lange danach gekauft hatte).

Da wir eh schon dabei sind: sind die "neuen" WD immer noch so genial?

Joe User · Nov 29, 2012

<OT>

chris085 said:
btw. wer bietet mehr

Eine Seagate mit knapp 20 Jahren (10h/Tag) auf dem Buckel (Industriemaschine).
</OT>

Joe User · Nov 29, 2012

Marentis said:
Meine WD im Desktop hat jetzt 10047 Betriebsstunden auf dem Buckel und hat zwei Samsung F1 überlebt (die ich lange danach gekauft hatte).

Code:

smartctl 6.0 2012-10-10 r3643 [FreeBSD 8.2-RELEASE-p10 amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-12, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     SAMSUNG SpinPoint F1 DT
Device Model:     SAMSUNG HD753LJ
Serial Number:    S13UJ1KS214195
LU WWN Device Id: 5 0024e9 00109d7dc
Firmware Version: 1AA01117
User Capacity:    750,156,374,016 bytes [750 GB]
Sector Size:      512 bytes logical/physical
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ATA/ATAPI-7, ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 3b
Local Time is:    Thu Nov 29 13:18:24 2012 CET
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x00) Offline data collection activity
                                        was never started.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                ( 9464) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        ( 159) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (  17) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x003f) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   080   080   011    Pre-fail  Always       -       6910
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       8
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0025   100   100   015    Pre-fail  Offline      -       10986
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   094   094   000    Old_age   Always       -       28839
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0033   100   100   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       8
 13 Read_Soft_Error_Rate    0x000e   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
184 End-to-End_Error        0x0033   100   100   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
187 Reported_Uncorrect      0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
188 Command_Timeout         0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   061   049   000    Old_age   Always       -       39 (Min/Max 25/51)
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   060   041   000    Old_age   Always       -       40 (0 8 59 25 0)
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       24098899
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
201 Soft_Read_Error_Rate    0x000a   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_error
# 1  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28827         -
# 2  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28804         -
# 3  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28780         -
# 4  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28756         -
# 5  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28732         -
# 6  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     28711         -
# 7  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28708         -
# 8  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28684         -
# 9  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28660         -
#10  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28636         -
#11  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28612         -
#12  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28588         -
#13  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28564         -
#14  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%     28543         -
#15  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28540         -
#16  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28516         -
#17  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28492         -
#18  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28468         -
#19  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28444         -
#20  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28420         -
#21  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     28396         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

Marentis said:
Da wir eh schon dabei sind: sind die "neuen" WD immer noch so genial?

Hängt von der Serie ab, aber im Allgemeinen ja (wobei ich die Modelle aus diesem Jahr nicht beurteilen kann).

derWachert · Nov 29, 2012

Na komme immerhin fast an den Kandidaten mit den 45k ran

Code:

9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       38052

Ist auch eine SpinPoint, allerdings 400GB anstatt 750GB.

Im Server mit den 750GB sinds "nur" ~11.000.

tomasini · Nov 29, 2012

Im Management Summary würde also stehen, kaufen sie WD. Korrekt?

Beide Platten im Raid 1 defekt, Zufall ?

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